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Pass the Tax Cuts

 
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jabailo



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Kent (East Hill), WA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:47 am    Post subject: Pass the Tax Cuts Reply with quote

I am a bit disappointed in the Republicans for not passing the Obama Tax cuts this Saturday.

I cannot fathom what the argument is for not accepting any and all tax cuts put on the table.

In fact, I have not heard any official reason. Some bloggers have said that "they want more cuts" or that "it's not fair to only cut some taxes".

Not fair? I thought we were supposed to be individuals fighting for our self-interest. It's in my self interest to have those cuts. When did the right suddenly get all collectivist and want cuts "for everyone".

As James Brown said, "I got mine, can't worry about his". I want my tax cut. Because I'm an individual.
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brian-hansen
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Pass the Tax Cuts Reply with quote

jabailo wrote:
I want my tax cut. Because I'm an individual.

Wealthy, powerful people want their tax cuts too, because they are individuals.

It's just that they have the wealth and the power to put your tax cuts at risk in order to get theirs.

Any appeal to "collectivist" values is a smokescreen: a thing that people
say to hide their real reasons.
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jabailo



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Kent (East Hill), WA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I am struggling with the game theory aspect of it all.

Given two powerful groups -- Democrats and Republicans.

Democrats have an interest in extending unemployment.

Republicans want to extend tax cuts.

The Democrats offer middle class cuts + unemployment.

The Republicans reject.

The Democrats offer all tax cuts + unemployment.

The Republicans accept.

So, it seems that one would have to conclude that the object of the Republicans is not "tax cuts" but "tax cuts for the wealthy".

My argument, as a Tea-publican, is that the first deal should have been taken.
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brian-hansen
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that what other T-Publicans believe and support?
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jabailo



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
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Location: Kent (East Hill), WA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an amorphous group...so I cannot speak for others (Republicans are like this as well...that's why I call them an "anti-Party" (not to be confused with the pejorative "party of no"))

I guess there are three things.

1. Unemployment
2. Middle Class tax cuts
3. Rich tax cuts

From the Democrat standpoint, they sought to buy off support for what they wanted (unemployment insurance) by adding in (middle class tax cuts).

From the Republican standpoint, the sought to buy off support by "giving in" to unemployment insurance and taking money away from the Government for all (tax cuts).

I haven't quite put my finger on it, but I feel that as middle class person, I was not quite compensated for my role in "leveraging" the deal. Of course ... that's been my complaint all along...
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brian-hansen
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about this:

There's the rice and beans (extending unemployment 13 weeks).
There's the hamburger helper (extending the middle class tax cuts).
Then there's the candy (upper 2% tax cuts).

I'm basing these comparisons on the utility of each, as described in
other posts (as in who is likely to spend, and deliver economic
bang-for-buck towards improving the economy).

Republicans claimed (as you note) that it was only "fair" if everyone
got a cut. You've demolished this argument. I would only add,
that the proposal that was "unfair" in this way, gave *everyone*,
the rich included, the rice and beans and hamburger helper tax cuts.

Republicans claimed that they didn't mind extending unemployment
so long as it was "paid for" and did not extend the deficit.

Apparently, if the upper 2% get their candy, then it's not so important
that we not put the rice and beans on the visa card, along with the
hamburger helper (and that 700 billion dollars worth of candy).

I've been at somewhat of a loss in how to understand the tea party
movement. It's always had a kind of image - I don't want to start a
fight at this moment, so I won't try to free associate too much just what it is
that I sense about it - but a little pathetic, naive; people who haven't
kept up for various reasons, and who look for some channel to vent
their anger. I said I'd keep that short, so what interests me is that
you now call yourself a Tea-publican (which I haven't heard - gotta
get out more, I'm sure).

You seem to agree with me, not only about the policy, but maybe about
something deeper underlying it. Here's my story:

We've got an economy in bad shape. When D said we need
to put rice and beans, and even hamburger helper, on the Visa card,
R said, no, not unless we put a whole lot of candy on it too. Otherwise,
we should only buy as much rice and beans as we need with whatever
cash we have. We can't use the charge card.

The fact that you agree with me about the policy (not so sure if
you agree with the story 100%) makes me think about the possibility
of becoming a "Tea-ocrat" ("T-ocrat?").
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jabailo



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Kent (East Hill), WA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The news just now is that the Democrats have rejected the new tax cut extension proposal that includes "the Rich" (whoever they are).

So, my contention stands. The tax cuts for the middle class (me, others) was put on hold when it could have been passed, by people who project themselves as specifically there "to cut taxes and spending".

I don't see how I could be more clear.
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brian-hansen
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Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jabailo wrote:
I don't see how I could be more clear.

I thought you were pretty clear until you wrote this (ironically).

It suddenly seems as though you think that I've been saying
that you haven't been clear. I think it was clear enough.

I was elaborating a story about candy and credit cards.
I was curious whether it worked for you. If you don't want to comment
on it, then that's okay.

[Meanwhile, your latest post adds another area where it could also be
[more clear: I'm 99% sure that the bill in question doesn't mention
["the rich", but does mention incomes over $250,000. So there's
[no need to wonder "whoever they are", since it isn't relevant. It
[appears that your question about who is rich is more about the
[reporting you listen to, rather than the 2 parties or the bill itself.

I'm just trying to find out how far our common ground extends.
I'm thinking that if we share significant common ground, and
you call yourself a "T-publican", then maybe I should consider
calling myself a "T-ocrat".
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