You-Read-It-Here-First Forum Index You-Read-It-Here-First
A collection of textual novelties
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
If you want to read the articles here, go ahead, just click on a forum and find a thread that interests you...no need to register! If you want to post something... either new or in response to someone here, then click the Register link above. It's free... and it's fun to write your ideas here. You can even create a "blog" by starting a personal thread in the Daily Life Every Thread A Diary section...

Double Sawbuck A Kwh Hydrogen Generation

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    You-Read-It-Here-First Forum Index -> Hydrogen
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jabailo



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Kent (East Hill), WA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:36 pm    Post subject: Double Sawbuck A Kwh Hydrogen Generation Reply with quote

Coming Soon: $20 ‘Solar to Hydrogen’ Conversion System

Quote:
Sun Catalytix, an American company founded by a MIT professor, is working on a low-cost ‘solar to hydrogen’ power system and plans to launch it within the next 18 months. The product which was announced about two years ago has attracted millions of dollars in investment from the Indian industrial giant Tata.

The system works by utilizing solar energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen is then stored to be used later. While there is nothing new in this technology, the way in which the the system does these things is completely revolutionary. The system can use water from any source, be it river water, sea water or even waste water. The company claims to that the system is highly efficient and is capable of powering a house with only two bottles of water from ‘any source’.


http://cleantechnica.com/2010/11/29/coming-soon-20-solar-to-hydrogen-conversion-system/#comments
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Visit the Instant Postcard Collection @ http://instant-postcard-collection.com
Looking for postcards of that favorite place? Family origins? Or that perfect vacation, except for the photos?
Researching your dissertation? Serious collector? Just looking for something neat?
You've found the right place to add to your existing collection, or to start a new one.
brian-hansen
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This appears to be another one of these poorly written science
articles that leave naive readers thrilled, and experienced
readers non-plussed.

If it all works as described, I'll bet that this technology would be
great for specific applications, as in the off grid commentator whose
solar batteries get topped off by noon on sunny days (more batteries,
though, maybe?).

We've seen this Nocera technology described before, and I'm glad
that there is funding for it now, but the numbers aren't there to
give me (at least) confidence in this technology. The article
mentions $20 only in the context of saying that it will be more than
this.

I find the water quality argument to be a bit surprising. If I could
power my house with just 2 bottles of water, I wouldn't be too
concerned about the water quality. I'd go to the supermarket and
buy two bottles of water that were especially clean if I had to,
or buy some little water purification technology. If we were talking
about giant power plants and the need for thousands of gallons, then
this feature would have real value. But the case made here is
for small scale, distributed power, so the cleanliness of the water
(except in very particular applications) would seem to be, as I say,
a small factor.

As we've discussed elsewhere, the costs and efficiencies associated
with cracking, compressing, and storing hydrogen introduce other
problems.

It seems to me that the reason that solar is emphasized is that this
technology is intended for off the grid use, where one would be willing
to pay more. If one used house current (from the grid) to make,
compress and store one's hydrogen, it seems that the inefficiencies
would become quite clear very quickly.

I don't want to be misunderstood. I think it's neat that we might
be able to generate hydrogen in this way. It just bugs me when
the basic analysis of how this technology works and how efficient
it might be is not included in the article. What little we are given
is at least somewhat incomplete or misleading. This detracts from
the idea as a whole.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jabailo



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Kent (East Hill), WA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this case, I share your frustration, although you, understandably and correctly take the skeptical position on the issue, whereas I take an optimistic attitude (which is what makes YRIHF great...should anyone happen upon it!), having read into the subject a bit more.

There is the basic problem that the technology is "like" other technologies, but not the same. And while the proliferation of "pop tech" websites should help...in fact, they seem to merely repeat each others errors.

The confusions with the Nocera process and Sun Catalytix are many. Almost no one understands the difference between a solar cell and an artificial leaf. People do not understand really what a catalytic process is...and how it affects energy inputs and outputs. They don't understand the uniqueness of tackling the oxygen side of the fuel cell reaction (I managed to plow through a few chapters of a textbook in basic fuel cell science..and believe you me, it covers the gamut of all physics, differential equations, P-chem and more...to really understand fuel cells is to understand science!)

So, there is this audience that is assuming that one thing means another...and it doesn't...and what comes out is a lot of nonsense text that is happily regurgitated.

I think some of our discussions here attempt (attempt!) to cut through the noise. I think the process is moving so fast, that the people in charge are saying...we can't wait any more for the slow readers...heck, even the moderate readers...call us in 18 months and we'll sell you one.

The Best Buy test.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
brian-hansen
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not very satisfying, but I guess I'll just have to wait until
Consumer Reports magazine writes a review.

Meantime, I wonder if we should change the title to this thread.

I read double sawbucks as $20, and $20/kWh is about
200 times higher than is competitive in today's market.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Visit the Instant Postcard Collection @ http://instant-postcard-collection.com
Looking for postcards of that favorite place? Family origins? Or that perfect vacation, except for the photos?
Researching your dissertation? Serious collector? Just looking for something neat?
You've found the right place to add to your existing collection, or to start a new one.
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    You-Read-It-Here-First Forum Index -> Hydrogen All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group