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Hydrogen Opening Move

 
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jabailo



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Hydrogen Opening Move Reply with quote

Many talk of the "Oil Endgame"....meanwhile some masters just issued the opening move in the Hydrogen Game. The game is how rich humanity can become on cheap, clean fuel...

Solar-Power Breakthrough
http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/21155/

Quote:
Daniel Nocera, a professor of chemistry at MIT, has developed a catalyst that can generate oxygen from a glass of water by splitting water molecules. The reaction frees hydrogen ions to make hydrogen gas. The catalyst, which is easy and cheap to make, could be used to generate vast amounts of hydrogen using sunlight to power the reactions. The hydrogen can then be burned or run through a fuel cell to generate electricity whenever it's needed, including when the sun isn't shining.
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jabailo



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opinion: MIT's big solar breakthough:
The economics of the future just got born

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/258183

Quote:
It’s so simple it’s stunning. Just do what any plant can do, and you can have as much solar power as you want. The missing link in the equation? An electrode. That’s also a good look at the costing: peanuts. This is the jackpot, in any language...
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brian-hansen
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My perception is that there is less here than meets the eye.

First, this breakthrough has virtually nothing to do with solar
power. The premise of the articles is that there is no effective
way of storing solar energy, which is, simply, untrue. Tying
solar photovoltaics to the "grid" is a relatively mature technology.
Hence, in most applications, there is no need to divert "extra"
energy from the day into producing hydrogen, to be later converted
back to electricity at night.

Tying to the grid entails costs and losses of efficiency, but the
same seems true for this technology.

One of the articles put this technology into the context of other
electrolysis technologies. While this electrolysis technology
appears to be more amenable to being distributed or localized,
there is no description that leads me to believe that it is any
more efficient at producing hydrogen from water than other
existing technology. If it is no more efficient than existing
technologies, then the only advantage this technology would have
is the possibility of reducing the cost of distribution of the hydrogen
(because you could produce it locally). Holding aside the question
of distribution, if water "cracking" from electrolysis were
efficient, we would be able to have huge electrolysis factories,
pipelines, tankers, and (hydrogen) gas stations.

As far as the cost of distribution, it is true that tankers and
gas stations cost money to construct and operate, but I wonder if
it is so much higher than the cost of constructing and operating
your own hydrogen factory and storage tanks in your basement.
And, of course, safety would be a pretty major concern.

I would be delighted but surprised if "burning" the hydrogen
produced more energy than the "electrode" took to produce it.

I conclude that there are 2 scenarios where this technology is
likely to be of value. One is for completely off-the-grid households.
The existing methods of storing electricity (batteries, pumping
water uphill during the day to run turbines at night) in this
situation are problematical.

The other scenario is for a homeowner who wants to generate
his or her own portable fuel for use with vehicles. I've seen no
indication that this could be done more economically than in a
more centralized system of generation, storage and distribution.
If there *is* evidence that it can, my bet would be that the
advantage would be marginal at best. The advantage of
being independent of buying hydrogen on the market would
seem to be offset by the dangers of creating, storing and burning
an explosive gas in one's basement or garage.

By converting the "extra" energy into hydrogen, as the article
suggests, there are going to be losses that make using the
hydrogen to generate electricity on-site less efficient than
merely sending the "extra" electricity to the grid.

Perhaps I'm being naive, but if electrolysis were competitive,
I think we'd have already gone into full production.
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jabailo



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brian-hansen wrote:
there is no need to divert "extra"
energy from the day into producing hydrogen, to be later converted
back to electricity at night.


Are you saying that there would be solar that "circles the globe" and that is why you don't see the need for storage.

What about cars? They can run on hydrogen...as well as other portable applications. Hydrogen is cheap, clean, fuel.

brian-hansen wrote:
efficient at producing hydrogen from water than other existing technology


Maybe that article wasn't clear. The breakthrough was just that...the amount of energy needed for electrolysis using the new method is radically less than others. It also uses common low cost catalysts, making it much easier to manufacture devices that implement the process.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you need a circle-the-globe strategy for energy storage,
though I suppose that's a clever idea if solar ever becomes a majority
source of energy worldwide. I don't see that as an immediate concern.

There are other ways of storing energy (heat sinks, batteries, flywheels,
etc.) that are at least as efficient as extracting hydrogen from water
and then combusting it. In addition, there are other sources of energy
that can be operated to balance a load, including hydropower and
geothermal, as well as natural gas, etc.

So, no, I don't think you need a round-the-world grid for a long time.

************
> What about cars? They can run on hydrogen...as well as other
> portable applications. Hydrogen is cheap, clean, fuel.

I believe I directly addressed the question of cars in my
original post. The advantage of the technology described
is that it can be done with a simple apparatus, and with inexpensive
catalysts. By my reading, claims about higher efficiency were
left tellingly vague. A subsequent reading of the comments following
the article echoed my thought process completely, or perhaps I should
say that my thought processes echoed the bloggers/commentators.

You could have one of these in your garage, but there is no reason
to believe that your home system would be any more efficient than
a more centralized system (factory, tankers, stations, etc.).

I agree Hydrogen is a clean fuel, but the question of whether it is
a cheap fuel depends on how much you put into getting it.
From some of the comments, battery storage of electricity could
ideally be 70-80% efficient (20-30% loss). Hydrogen was described
as being ideally about 50% efficient. Because it is portable, it is
reasonable to pay a premium to have a fuel that we can carry
with us, so that inefficiency wouldn't necessarily bother us.
Still, other electrolysis technologies are more efficient. Unless
compressed (entailing more loss of efficiency), hydrogen is not
energy-dense, reducing it's usefulness in a vehicle scenario.

I agree the article was unclear. I see only the wispiest claim
that this technology is more efficient, just that the setup is less
costly, not less costly to operate in terms of electricity input.

After following up by reading a few other posts, and notably:
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4378
I see where these guys are trying to get to, and it is very interesting.
If you could make a solution of solar PV particles in with the
water to electrolyze, you could do it all in one device, and not
need two different components. They aren't anywhere near
that point yet.
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jabailo



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another article (written from, of all places, Portland, OR -- shoutout to my bros in Portland...wuzzup!)

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=209900956

Quote:
A liquid catalyst was added to water before electrolysis to achieve what the researchers claim is almost 100-percent efficiency. When combined with photovoltaic cells to store energy chemically, the resulting solar energy systems could generate electricity around the clock, the MIT team said.

"The hard part of getting water to split is not the hydrogen -- platinum as a catalyst works fine for the hydrogen. But platinum works very poorly for oxygen, making you use much more energy," said MIT chemistry professor Daniel Nocera. "What we have done is made a catalyst work for the oxygen part without any extra energy. In fact, with our catalyst almost 100 percent of the current used for electrolysis goes into making oxygen and hydrogen."
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brian-hansen
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I note from reading around the web that there are different measures
of efficiency relating to electrolysis.

I might be wrong, but I gather that efficiency is not entirely a matter
of current-in versus cracked molecules out, but that the degradation
of the electrode and other additives constitute two other inputs, and
their inclusion reduces the "efficiency".

This is consistent with some of the statements in the articles, relating
to the notion that their electrode does not break down.

So, if that's right, that would be a breakthrough, I gather. Of course,
as I alluded to earlier, even if that part was 100% efficient,
inefficiencies and difficulties would make hydrogen cracking
unattractive for storing electricity for nighttime use.

I don't really mean to be so negative about hydrogen, and this
technology, John. I'm definitely okay with the idea of using
hydrogen for cars. For the home use, there's probably a better
use of a PV panel than to make hydrogen.

BTW, I found a terrific site discouraging folks from doing this at
home. http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/590986.html
Just a few of the nuggets:

Since mixtures of hydrogen and air or oxygen can be explosive, you
_really_ don't want to try this without previous practical experience
in handling more than small amounts of hydrogen. The amount of
hydrogen you can generate from 1 gallon of water will occupy a tank 3
ft by 3 ft by 15 ft (at one atmosphere pressure) (about 1250 gallons).
In addition to preventing leaks, you will need some way to exclude air
and oxygen from the collecting tank; displacement of water might do,
but that's a lot of water to waste. Hydrogen is both colorless and
odorless; you would need some device to test for hydrogen leaks
without using sparks or flames. If you wanted to keep the hydrogen in
a smaller tank, you would have to be concerned with methods of
compressing hydrogen and avoiding explosions there also.

...

Wikipedia lists gives efficiencies of 50 - 70% and 80 - 94% and lists
two references. In my calculations below, I assume 100% efficiency;
the actual energy needs could be up to twice those amounts.

...

16.5 Kwatt-hours of energy are needed to convert 1 gallon of water to
hydrogen. The wattage needed depends on the current flow; if an
apparatus used 1000 watts, then the hydrogen could be generated in
less than a day. However, the current required is too high to do
electrolysis at this rate in normal households; an industrial line
would most likely be needed. You could generate hydrogen at a slower
rate and wattage and still get the conversion done on a 10 amp or 20
amp circuit, but it would take longer...

******************************

Also, I just thought to look at wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis

It doesn't exactly back me up on the measurement of efficiency notion,
but it does give a good explanation of a lot of the issues.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For the home use, there's probably a better
use of a PV panel than to make hydrogen.


This discovery and hydrogen in general appeals to me because of it's fungibility. Hydrogen can be made, bought traded -- at the molecular level! Contrast that with any other energy solution -- the panel, the wind turbine, the nuke, the coal plant and you'll see that hydrogen is almost like money...it's an interchange between all our other energy sources.

This leveling effect financially is also seen in the physical storage arena. Unlike standard "batteries" hydrogen only requires a container, not a storage medium. You can use a PV to generate hydrogen over value for the energy needed for the home and always be assured of steady current. Batteries as you know, need equipment to keep their voltage constant as they lose charge.
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brian-hansen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jabailo wrote:
Quote:
For the home use, there's probably a better
use of a PV panel than to make hydrogen.


This discovery and hydrogen in general appeals to me because of it's fungibility. Hydrogen can be made, bought traded -- at the molecular level! Contrast that with any other energy solution -- the panel, the wind turbine, the nuke, the coal plant and you'll see that hydrogen is almost like money...it's an interchange between all our other energy sources.


The advantage of Hydrogen is that it is (somewhat) transportable.
this makes it acceptable for use in vehicles. It is not a very good
storehouse for energy because the inefficiencies associated with
producing it, compressing it, storing it, keeping it safe, distributing it,
and extracting its energy. Electricity fits your notion of an interchange
much better than Hydrogen, but it is not perfect either.

Quote:
This leveling effect financially is also seen in the physical storage arena. Unlike standard "batteries" hydrogen only requires a container, not a storage medium. You can use a PV to generate hydrogen over value for the energy needed for the home and always be assured of steady current. Batteries as you know, need equipment to keep their voltage constant as they lose charge.

It's a bit more complicated. You can just "contain" generated hydrogen,
but it is very diffuse. The tank for storing the Hydrogen from one
gallon of water is about 150 cubic feet. To pressurize it takes energy.
The electrical battery leakage you mention is real, but it is a relatively
small effect, on the order of a percent or 2 per day, if I recall correctly.

I can imagine applications where that would be an issue (you visit your
mountain cabin once a month - Hydrogen might have an advantage
there), but most applications don't require storing energy for so long.
Meantime, you don't need to use batteries. Just tie into the grid.
The ultimate fungibility.
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jabailo



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have also been quite a few breakthoughs in being able to store hydrogen at high densities and at room temperatures using various oxides such as those of magnesium. In that case, the space and energy arguments would be solved.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being able to shift to a renewable source of energy
on a large scale, and having the ability to use that
energy to fuel vehicles would be a great relief to me
and many others.

I hadn't thought in any great depth about the pros and
cons of hydrogen technology before your original posting
on the topic. It would be great if some of the research
you mention now could reduce some of the inefficiencies
of converting back and forth from electricity and
Hydrogen. I wonder about the space problem, though.

At the pressures [800 atmospheres] needed to store on-vehicle,
enough fuel for a 300 mile trip (what I suppose is a kind of
"gold-standard" for alternative-fuel vehicles), the strength and weight
of the tanks become a major factor. For a comparison, consider
that the pressure in a pressure-cooker is typically 1 atmosphere
(above normal air pressure). The idea of us interacting
daily with tanks of explosive gases under these kinds of
unimaginable pressures, leads me to think more toward
industrial uses, not home generation. And vehicles? well...

I haven't followed this, but I have to think that where hydrogen
will get developed is in taking the factory one step further
and building hydrocarbons. I have no idea of the energetics
of that process, but well-known fuel hydrocarbons have good
distribution properties, and are safer to handle.

By the way, I posted an entry in the Units of Measurement
forum on the notion of a "Gallon of Gas Equivalent" (the GGE).
Since I had Hydrogen on my mind, I followed up with some
comparisons between gas and Hydrogen, particularly in the
areas of energy and storage. My estimates did not specifically
take these new technologies you mention into account.

Here's a shortcut: http://you-read-it-here-first.com/viewtopic.php?t=1164&sid=9e120c013e106f45e5e6d151cbdd3f70
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jabailo



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I hadn't thought in any great depth about the pros and
cons of hydrogen technology before your original posting
on the topic. It would be great if some of the research
you mention now could reduce some of the inefficiencies
of converting back and forth from electricity and
Hydrogen. I wonder about the space problem, though.


One interesting thing about hydrogen compared to gasoline, others, is that it packs the most "bang for the litre" -- delivers the most power per unit of gas. That's why the new hydrogen only cars like the BMW Hydrogen (which uses a standard ICE engine with a gasoline backup tank) and the Honda FCX Clarity (fuel cell driven) get fantastic mileage. Your home could get the same fantastic "mileage" powered by hydrogen.

Now maybe it's your turn to answer a few questions. One thing I've noticed in arguing with various Greens (on Grist.org -- a trendy site about environmental and energy issues) is that they often poo-poo hydrogen (I've cast them in 'leet as H28ers). Which I find odd because it seems that other technologies are easily accepted. From what I can see, the only reason many Greens hate hydrogen is that it's been ballyhooed and funded by the Bush administration since 2001 (this is one the many reasons I have been a Bush fan all along. I remember reading an article back then about Bush's shift in policy away from subsidizing mature technologies and focusing on developing hydrogen per se, fuel cells and nanotechnology and I said to myself "finally, a smart person is running things"). Anyway, in Green canon, hybrid cars are good. But hydrogen cars are bad. Ethanol, wind and solar are good, but electrolysis is railed against. Nanotechnology is ignored (many Greens are liberal arts majors, so...)

But, when I add it all up, hydrogen seems the most natural "currency" that cuts across a host of energy issues. I even argued this with one of the chief science advisors of the Sierra Club in a response to an anti-Bush editorial. One of my arguments was

19th Century - Coal - A Solid
20th Century - Oil - A Liquid
21st Century - Hydrogen - A Gas
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brian-hansen
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jabailo wrote:

Now maybe it's your turn to answer a few questions. One thing I've noticed in arguing with various Greens (on Grist.org -- a trendy site about environmental and energy issues) is that they often poo-poo hydrogen (I've cast them in 'leet as H28ers). Which I find odd because it seems that other technologies are easily accepted. From what I can see, the only reason many Greens hate hydrogen is that it's been ballyhooed and funded by the Bush administration...

This seems very unlikely to me. From my short study of it, it does
not fit into a distributed (home) generation scenario. With current
technologies, the pressurization required presents very real safety
concerns. It is also not a very good carrier or storehouse of energy.
Especially when compared to electrons.


Quote:
19th Century - Coal - A Solid
20th Century - Oil - A Liquid
21st Century - Hydrogen - A Gas

21st century - How about electrons?
22nd century - vacuum energy?

I didn't actually see any questions...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say you need to increase your H2IQ:

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/education/h2iq.html

Quote:
Find easy-to-understand information about hydrogen (H2) and fuel cell technologies here! Increase your H2IQ by checking out our fact sheets, multimedia tools, fuel cell animation, and other introductory resources.


And this guy doesn't seem to have problems with storage:

Solar hydrogen home Michael Strizki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEdQRVQtffw

I find that Hydrogen technology is a rapidly moving enterprise.

Things spoken about a year ago become reality today.

They're already leasing Honda FCX Clarity cars (hydrogen fuel cell) in CA:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/honda-fcx-clarity-fuel-cell-vehicle-lease-program-begins-customer-delivery/

Storage technology is taking many routes. The DOE just offered a grant of 15Mil to push forward with solid oxide storage. H2 can also be stored as a pressurized gas (as in cars) or liquid (more money, more problems...but doable):

H2 Storage Basics:
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/storage/basics.html
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jabailo



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Foundations laid for wind-to-hydrogen "mini grid" in Yorkshire

http://newenergyfocus.com/do/ecco.py/view_item?listid=1&listcatid=32&listitemid=1591&section=

Quote:
The new Environmental Energy Technology Centre (EETC) between Rotherham and Sheffield should see all its power provided by a 225kW turbine.

And, even when the wind does not blow, the turbine should be able to provide the building's power needs through a hydrogen fuel cell system.

The system will generate hydrogen from excess power from the wind turbine through an electrolyser, which can then turned back into electricity by the fuel cell during periods of low wind speed.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hydrogenics, a leading designer and manufacturer of hydrogen electrolyzers and fuel cell systems, has been selected by Powertech Labs, a wholly-owned subsidiary of BC Hydro, to provide an electrolyzer for a community hydro-hydrogen-diesel system serving the community of Bella Coola, British Columbia.

...


Hydrogen used as energy storage for renewable resources

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/hydrogenics-supply-electrolyzer-powertech-labs/story.aspx?guid=%7B63618086-C43A-4BAA-9479-8971A4C5A1A9%7D&dist=hppr

Quote:
"Hydrogen provides an ideal energy storage solution," said Daryl Wilson, President and CEO of Hydrogenics. "We believe that hydrogen will play a critical role in capturing the power of renewable resources and creating viable energy systems that are cost effective, sustainable and environmentally friendly," says Wilson. Batteries are often used to store excess energy; however, batteries incur significant energy loss over time and are relatively expensive options for large scale energy storage. By comparison, stored hydrogen does not dissipate energy over time and the cost of storage is relatively low. "Hydrogen storage is highly scalable and ideal for storing large amounts of energy for long periods of time," Wilson added. This is particularly significant at Bella Coola where the intermittency of the run-of-the-river system will require long-term storage, where hydrogen significantly outperforms batteries. In addition, hydrogen is multi-use and can be used to fuel vehicles and other industrial equipment.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More breakthroughs in H2 generation:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/08/18/2338555.htm?site=science&topic=latest

Hydrogen harvested using nature's recipe

Quote:
Researchers have split water into hydrogen and oxygen by replicating how plants use photosynthesis to make carbohydrates.

..

Although scientists have been able to split water into hydrogen and oxygen for years, current techniques use expensive chemicals as the catalyst which prohibits any move to a commercial product.

The new system involves an electrode coated with a proton conductor that is then impregnated with a form of manganese.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool image...a map of the existing hydrogen producing infrastructure in the US:

http://www.h2andyou.org/pdf/nightLights.pdf
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Storage Breakthrough Reply with quote

http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Supppage9232.html

Quote:
In the new study, the researchers used computer modeling to design a unique hydrogen-storage structure consisting of parallel graphene sheets — layers of carbon just one atom thick —stabilized by vertical columns of CNTs. They also added lithium ions to the material's design to enhance its storage capacity. The scientists' calculations showed that their so-called "pillared graphene" could theoretically store up to 41 grams of hydrogen per liter, almost matching the DOE's target (45 grams of hydrogen per liter) for transportation applications.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a guy who runs some numbers for hydrogen.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/epcp_0810_hydrogen_fuel_cell_vehicles/index.html

He does not seem to be familiar with Nocera or he chooses to use current technology and begins with a 50 percent efficiency of converting electricity to hydrogen:

Quote:

If you consider that the hydrogen production process is only about 50 percent energy efficient you are losing half your energy there, but we aren't done. You still have to get the energy to produce that hydrogen. As stated already, if you can do it with a form of clean energy you are good, but combustion fueled powerplants are only about 40 percent efficient. Now you have to get the fuel to the people. Hydrogen may be more efficient by weight than fossil fuels, but not by volume. A gallon of gasoline weighs roughly 6 pounds and contains 125,400 Btu, a gallon of diesel weighs just over 7 pounds and contains 139,200 Btu of energy, a gallon of liquid hydrogen weighs just 0.567 pounds but only has 34,643 Btu. The hydrogen fuel tank is also substantially heavier because liquid hydrogen has to be kept below minus 253 degrees C or else it needs to be vented since it turns back into gaseous hydrogen.


The article talks about how we may soon have 50 mpg (I've seen figures more like 60 mpg) diesel cars from Europe (he possibly means the start-stop technology, where the engine shuts off during idle...this is essentially how the hybrid gas-electric saves energy, but switching to electric in the city so no energy is lost at a stop light).

Although he shows some of the downside of hydrogen, and while I don't fault his preference for diesel, I think his mistake is not seeing the rapid growth curve in hydrogen technology which we have just entered.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject: Light Weight Tank for H2 Reply with quote

http://gas2.org/2008/11/06/metal-alloy-hydrogen-tank-60-lighter-than-a-battery/

Quote:
A Dutch researcher has developed a magnesium, titanium and nickel alloy that has huge potential as a hydrogen storage tank for cars of the future. On a relative basis, the weight of a storage tank made from this alloy would be 60% lighter than a lithium ion battery that could take a car the same distance.

...

But Dutch researcher Robin Gremaud has found that storing the hydrogen in his metal alloy “nano-sponge” can drastically reduce the danger of explosion. The metal alloy can absorb the hydrogen and render it relatively inert until needed. According to Gremaud’s press release, however, the “drawback of this approach is that it makes the hydrogen ‘tanks’ somewhat cumbersome.”
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.physorg.com/news147451495.html

A Promising Catalyst for Solar-Based Hydrogen Energy Production

Quote:
The inorganic catalysts developed in the last 30 years have been metal-based and often require the use of pricey precious metals to aid in the catalysis process. Synthetic polymer materials have also been developed, but they only work with light in the ultraviolet region -- a small fraction of the solar spectrum -- and their performance is mediocre.

The material investigated by Wang and his colleagues is carbon nitride that has been "polymerized" into molecule chains. This form of carbon nitride was first synthesized in 1834. The group went a step further, using a heating/condensation process to force the chains to form layered sheets with structures similar to graphite, a highly ordered form of carbon.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on Denmark...they are building an entire community built on Hydrogen!

http://www.h2pia.com/com/h2pia/materials/H2PIA_Concept_Launching.pdf

Quote:
Based on existing hydrogen and fuel cell technology the
building of H2PIA can actually begin in year 2007, and
thereby become an early stepping stone towards the
future hydrogen economy.

H2PIA – a city based on freedom, clean energy, creativity and innovation

H2PIA is a vision for a complete city, where citizens will produce the energy they need for
themselves. H2PIA will show how we can develop from a society that produces energy by
burning oil, coal and gas, to a hydrogen-based, independent, and pollution-free community.

H2PIA is based upon three values:
• Freedom
Because the citizens of H2PIA are independent of oil. They produce and store their own
fuel in the form of hydrogen, that can deliver energy to both their homes and their cars.
• Clean energy
Because hydrogen is produced from renewable energy sources: sun and wind. And the
only exhaust product left over when it is used is pure water.
• Creativity and innovation
Because the creation of H2PIA demands a close cooperation between the private and
the public sector – between businesses, universities and policy makers.
Experimentation, knowledge, experience, and results must be turned into real-life
products to create a well-functioning and sustainable community where the noisy and
polluting combustion engine is replace by the clean and silent hydrogen fuel cell.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:35 pm    Post subject: The Only Answer Reply with quote

http://www.thestar.com/News/GlobalVoices/article/558984

Quote:
David Scott, scientist, engineer and author of Smelling Land: The Hydrogen Defence Against Climate Catastrophe, puts it bluntly:

"The more you research and the more you think about a post-petroleum world, the more you realize that hydrogen isn't just the best answer, it's the only answer," he says.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:58 am    Post subject: More about the Hydrogen House Reply with quote

Quote:
"It doesn't cost me anything," says Michael Strizki, of Renewable Energy International Inc. (REI).

That's right, nothing.

And the secret is a power plant of Mike's own design that collects energy from solar panels and then stores them as hydrogen -- the gas from which all those no-bill blessings flow.

"The solar energy comes down from the roof and goes into these four inverters, where it's converted into house current. Excess energy from here goes into my battery bank. From my battery bank, any excess energy that's not used in the house goes into storage anytime I want to use it by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen through this device that's called an electrolizer," Strizki said.



http://www.myfoxphilly.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=8134210&version=4&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1


Here's the business that Strizki runs to convert other homes:

http://www.renewableenergyinternational.com/
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breakthrough turn-on for hydrogen power

http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Breakthrough--turnon-for-hydrogen.4849363.jp

Quote:
Using a catalyst, they have converted ethanol fermented from biofuels into hydrogen.



http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/at-least-he-didnt-take-a-private-jet/

Quote:
There were more than 50 new members of Congress sworn in during the session, including Eric Massa, Democrat of the 29th District in New York, who rolled up to the Capitol in a Chevrolet Equinox Fuel Cell vehicle.



http://www.themotorreport.com.au/16459/mazda3-and-mazda-premacy-hydrogen-hybrid-to-debut-at-tokyo-auto-salon/

Quote:
Utilizing both a rotary engine and a hydrogen-powered electric motor, the Premacy hybrid concept will make the best use of petrol and hydrogen power.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.wheelsunplugged.com/ViewNews.aspx?newsid=2254

Quote:
Indian Oil Corporation has recently announced the opening of the country's first hydrogen fuel-dispensing bunk at Dwarka, in New Delhi.


http://www.prairiebizmag.com/articles/index.cfm?id=9569&section=News

Quote:
“The wind-to-hydrogen project is a way of capturing and using wind and hydrogen in a different way,” Basin Electric spokesman Daryl Hill said. “The question is, ‘How can we produce and use hydrogen?’ One of the ways is as a transportation fuel. We have three trucks that can run on hydrogen. Another option is to use hydrogen as a fuel to run backup generation for wind. We need a backup for when the wind isn’t blowing.”
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is phenomenal...a portable fuel cell, that generates electricity from water, and it costs around $600. The power packs are one time use for $50 but they last for a month.

How can you beat this for camping, power outages...

http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/portable_power.htm


Recent news:

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/01/another_ces_gre.html

Quote:
Horizon Fuel Cell Technologies completed the pre-production unit of the HydroPak portable power generator - a clean and quiet alternative to lead acid battery packs and portable generators. The first of the HydroPak line is in pre-production stage and has initiated certification and first shipments are expected to start in late 2008. The suggested retail price has been set at $650/unit initially, and $30 for each 270Wh cartridge refill.


Quote:
First, Horizon Fuel Cell has a retail version of its Hydropak, the final outcome of last year's prototype, and it's got double the power at 50 watts. You can plug in 110-volt, 12-volt, and 5-volt DC power sources, and you can get five hours at full power. It runs $400 for the unit and the cartridges are about $30. Once you activate them, you can keep refilling them with water and using them for 30 days.


Be sure to watch the video!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I buy 270Wh from my local power company, I pay about 3 cents.

If I bought that for 30 days, I'd expect to pay less than one dollar.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you're certainly welcome to take a coal fired power plant with you the next time you go camping and want to bring a laptop, but perhaps you'd have to buy that pickup truck first.

Seriously, the fact that this exists at all excites me. I can envision a nascent Agrarian village which a combination of delivered LNG for heat and using this device for some minimal electricity use -- laptop with Wimax and some light bulbs...how much more do you need?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/14/volt-chief-engineer-still-thinks-hydrogen-is-the-long-term-answe/

Volt chief engineer still thinks hydrogen is the long term answer

Quote:
Just like Daimler officials did at the reveal of the Concept BlueZero, Zielinski believes that hydrogen will be the long term answer to energy storage and production in electric drive vehicles.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I could count on 5 hours of sun per day, I could bring a 50 watt
solar panel and an extra car battery, and leave the coal plant behind.

Purchase price: comparable
Operating expense: zero
Weight: probably less

I'm not anti-hydrogen, and I recognize improvements may come
with mass production, but it is good to put these new technologies
into perspective, by seeing what they are competing with.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the features of Hydropak:

•50W continuous
•1 AC port 110V
•1 USB port 5V DC
•Energy Storage: 270Wh per cartridge refill
•Cartridge activation using normal water
•Dimensions: 24cm x 25cm x 13cm
•Weight: 1.6kg
•Power availability post-activation: 30 days (of cartridge)

http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/portable_power.htm

So, it's capable out of the box of running an A/C device. The principle cost is the cartridge, which I believe is Old School platinum based. The Nocera process could bring that way down in the future!

The Nocera process was called by Wired Magazine one of the Top Ten Science breakthroughs of 2009:

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/01/top-10-scientif.html

Quote:
Just hook a 9-volt battery to electrodes and dunk them into a jar of water. The problem is that it takes a lot of energy to do this. If you want to fill tanks with those gases, and use them to run a fuel cell, you'll need to do it very efficiently. Nocera, and his team at MIT, found a catalyst that makes the task of splitting H2O remarkably easy. It could store the energy harvested by solar cells and wind farms.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

$16B Bank Goes Off The Grid With Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Quote:
...$16 billion First National Bank of Omaha and its data center are in their 10th year of being completely powered by hydrogen fuel cells and are -- literally -- off the grid.


http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/01/16b_bank_goes_o.html;jsessionid=OXDMSJJ1PBEGKQSNDLPCKHSCJUNN2JVN#community
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2009/01/24/hydrogen-from-aluminum-clusters/

Quote:
Penn State University scientists and the Virginia Commonwealth University have found something that is the ultimate dream and hope of alternative energy researchers: use water as a fuel. Their findings show that water can be split into its two constituents, hydrogen and oxygen, at room temperature and without any external energy addition.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.gasworld.com/news.php?a=3536

Quote:
The Fukuoka Hydrogen Town model project is the beginning of what organisers say will be the largest hydrogen-powered city in the world.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2009/mar/04/iredells-hydrogen/news-opinion/

Quote:
Like a B-movie zombie that claws its way back out of the grave, the "hydrogen-is-a-long-way-off" myth comes back over and over.

Often those who spout this chestnut go to pontificate that "it will take years to build a hydrogen infrastructure."

What a crock.

[...]

Those who work in the industrial gas business tell me that the amount of hydrogen already sold for non-vehicular use is so great that if hydrogen cars of many brands were already in show rooms and on the roads, it would take years before the H2 they need would make a dent in the existing commercial H2 flow.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/03/30/ap6231174.html

SC's first hydrogen fueling stations open

Quote:
The state's first hydrogen fueling stations [...] opened Monday with ribbon-cutting ceremonies in Aiken and Columbia.

South Carolina House Speaker Bobby Harrell said the state is leading the way in developing hydrogen into the nation's next viable energy source. He said the hydrogen fueling station in Columbia could represent the gas stations of tomorrow.


http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/energy/air-products-technology-key-long-islands-hydrogen-fueling-station-town/

Air Products' Technology Key to Long Island's First Hydrogen Fueling Station in Town of Hempstead Green Energy Initiative
Quote:

Ground is broken, construction work on Long Island's first hydrogen fueling station has begun, and this spring Air Products' (NYSE: APD: 56.64, 1.22, 2.2%) fueling technology is scheduled to begin providing three alternative fuels to a fleet of vehicles operated by the Town of Hempstead, New York. Air Products is a member of this alternative fuel green energy initiative, along with the Town of Hempstead, the New York State Energy Research Development Authority (NYSERDA: undefined, undefined, undefined%) and National Grid. Hydrogen for this fueling station, located at the town's Conservation and Waterways headquarters in Point Lookout, will be produced through an electrolysis process that generates hydrogen from water. The process does not involve any fossil fuels.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: H2 news Reply with quote

Every gas station now a hydrogen fueling station:

New Patent For Cheap Hydrogen Fuel

http://www.aircargoworld.com/break_news/20042009d.htm

Quote:
Based in Grand Forks, North Dakota, The EERC technology converts alcohol, or liquid fuels such as ethanol, methanol and gasoline, to high-pressure hydrogen at the time of fueling.



GM looks to the future with hydrogen fuel cells

http://www.buffalonews.com/145/story/643527.html

Quote:
The quiet-riding fuel cell vehicles generate zero emissions, other than water vapor, and use no gasoline. They are part of GM’s strategy to put more environmentally friendly autos on the road, along with hybrids, other types of electric-powered cars and vehicles that run on biofuels.




Hydrogen in every home

http://www.odemagazine.com/doc/62/japanese-fuel-cell/


Quote:
Yasushi Kawamori has a power plant in his backyard. Not the kind that belches clouds of CO2 into the atmosphere, but the kind that’s small (about the size of a refrigerator and a suitcase placed side by side), quiet (a faint thumping is just audible) and emits a fraction of the carbon dioxide a coal-fired plant would. The system uses a hydrogen fuel cell to convert natural gas into electricity; heat from the reaction generates hot water for himself, his wife and their two children. It’s called a fuel cell cogeneration system, and Kawamori is more than happy to have it in his backyard.
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hydrogen Fuel Made Using Green Energy

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/05/06/hydrogen-electrolyzer.html

Quote:
"What we're proposing is to give a full-scale demonstration of taking renewable energy off of a wind machine or photovoltaic grid, using that energy to power a water electrolyzer to break down water into hydrogen and oxygen and then use that hydrogen as a fuel in a fuel cell-powered vehicle," Paul Prokopius, an energy consultant and retired NASA fuel cell researcher, told Discovery News.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nanotechnology solar-hydrogen project wins E.ON research award

http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=10690.php

Quote:
Dr Li Puma said: “Hydrogen production by conventional water splitting over a nano-structured photocatalyst has been the topic of numerous investigations since the pioneering work of Fujishima and Honda in 1972 (Nature, 238, 37). However, after an initial enthusiasm it was quickly realised that hydrogen production rates were too modest to warrant scale-up. In contrast, the Solar-Hydrogen process, which has been demonstrated at a laboratory scale, yields hydrogen at rates up to 100 times greater than with conventional water splitting making the process commercially feasible.”
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.starbulletin.com/business/20090526_Hickam_solar_project_will_power_hydrogen_plant_and_fueling_station.html

Quote:
Hickam Air Force Base has completed a $1.1 million solar array project that will now power its hydrogen plant and fueling station -- a first of its kind for the Air Force and Hawaii.

The 146-kilowatt system made up of 810 solar modules is enough to power about 30 standard homes. The solar photovoltaic system was gradually turned on Friday to fuel the base's hydrogen plant with the renewable energy.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://blogs.forbes.com/energysource/2010/01/29/cheap-hydrogen-from-dirty-water-maybe/

Cheap Hydrogen From Dirty Water...Maybe

Quote:
In the wake of his discovery Nocera founded a company called Sun Catalytix with backing by Polaris Ventures. Polaris has invested $3 million in seed money so far and is gearing up to raise its first full venture round, according to Bob Metcalfe, the ethernet inventor and Polaris partner. The company has a superstar scientific advisory board, including MIT Institute Professor John Deutch and Harvard professor and nanotechnology pioneer George Whitesides.
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