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In Defense of Torture

 
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brian-hansen
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Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:17 pm    Post subject: In Defense of Torture Reply with quote

In another post, JABAILO wrote:

Quote:
Torture: We are dealing with people who play polo using the head of a goat. For me the question is not should we, but is it effective.


John, there are so many things wrong with this that I don't know quite where to begin. Before I do, I'll give you a chance to clarify your words if you like.

-Brian
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blueberry sushi



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Oglak Tartish and torture Reply with quote

If I may, I'd like to add something. This is tucked into a quiet corner of this strange site, but I'd like to introduce myself, just a little. The playing polo with the head of a goat quote got my attention. I used to live in Kyrgyzstan, which is in central Asia and is one of the places that they play Oglak Tartish. When I saw it played, it was with a headless goat, not a goat's head. This is an aside.

I don't see any link between the game and torture. The goat was dead. I am unequivocally against the torture of animals, but the torture of humans for information seems qualitatively different to me than a game played with a dead goat.

So, to continue with my introduction: it appears that there are only a couple of people who post here (hello Jabailo, hello Brian Hansen), but I'm currently procrastinating quite a bit and I became intrigued with Jabailo during his posts on another site: grist.org. I am diametrically opposed to his opinions in my own evaluation of most current events, so I was naturally drawn to a forum that he linked to on his profile. And here I am.

So here I am. My name is Blueberry Sushi.
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youreadit
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Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Blueberry Sushi-

Welcome to YRIHF. I've been waiting for you.

Yes, it is a strange site, but I've been hoping others would find it intriguing
enough to join in. So far, most contributors besides John and myself
(Brian) have been spammers, so it's good to get a real human posting
here.

John is a good friend, and I admire the way he spins out ideas, but I find
most of them as wrong as they are provocative, and I have a hard time
keeping up the energy to debunk them. This particular posting is one that
I feel the worst about leaving unanswered.

Your posting inspires me to finally answer it.

First, B. Sushi is right that goat's heads are entirely irrelevant. Even if
they weren't, our society adores those that punt, kick and pass balls that
(until recently) were made from pig's bladders. Does that mean we
should all be tortured?

As far as torture goes, this should all be so obvious that it pains me to
have to answer the point at all. So, I'll be very brief. If there is some
aspect of the fallacy of torture that you would like me to elaborate on,
I guess I'd go into more detail.

1) golden rule
2) protecting the reputation of the US
3) Geneva Convention
4) Rule of Law
5) becoming like "them"
6) shame on us / corrosive effect on our society
7) evil
8) WWJD
9) moral high ground - we lose the the right to be outraged if others use it
on us.
10) too much TV, particularly "24"
11) protecting our own citizens/soldiers from being tortured by others.
12) effectiveness - most studies I've heard of establish that it is
ineffective. Torturees tend to tell the torturers what they want to hear.

I guess I'm still not convinced that your original statement wasn't a troll.
But if I could convince you not to support torture, it would be a small
comfort.

-Brian
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